Head to The City: Manhattan NYC’s La Grande Boucherie Chef Maxime Kien Reveals inspiration from Past Generations of Chefs
Chef Maxime Kien is the new Executive Chef of NYC’s The Group, responsible for La Grande Boucherie, Boucherie Union Square, Boucherie West Village, Petite Boucherie and more. And by the end of 2023, they’re launching even more restaurants throughout the United States..
But today’s conversation is about how the past has inspired Chef Maxime Kien’s work.
Chef Maxime Kien has over twenty years of fine dining experience but it all started as a young boy growing up in his family’s kitchens.
You grew up in kitchens. Your grandparents loved to cook and your father was a chef. How did these experiences inspire you?
Well, my Dad was a professional Chef in the South of France. In Monaco, all my grandparents, both my grandmothers and my grandfathers were great cooks. One of my great-grandfathers was a professional cook in Paris at an open air market that was very famous in the early 1900s. There was a very famous French brasserie opened over there and the story behind that is that the gentleman that opened that place wanted to have a place where all the chefs [that worked there] could meet because there was the open air market that was right next to it.
So you had a mix of late night partiers that would go out and party and wanted a place to be able to go eat and drink all night long. Now you had a place for that.
All the people that worked until late at night wanted a place where they could go and eat something before they went home. And Chefs that had to go to the market very early, at four o’clock in the morning to pick up that day’s poultry, rabbits, quails and all the fresh fish coming from Britain on a daily routine. They would do that at four o’clock in the morning and afterwards they needed a place to go for breakfast.
It was open 24 hours a day. It was always a mix of people from show business, like singers and actors.
You would have Mick Jagger sitting at the bar. Next to him would be a Chef. Next to the Chef would be a 14 year old boy having an omelet for breakfast with a glass of red wine at six o’clock in the morning. So it’s always been a mix of everything.
Unfortunately, my Dad passed away when I was really young. I was six. But I guess I was drawn to cooking and that lifestyle. It’s chaotic. When you’re working in a kitchen, you never know what time you’ll get done. It might be quiet and you get home at night by 10 o’clock.
If you start to get busy, you might not be done until two o’clock in the morning. So it’s a mix of adrenaline and being busy and it’s tough and it’s grueling and it’s rewarding and it’s a mix of everything
How did growing up in kitchens with your family inspire you to run your own kitchen?
Every chef is different. The way I run my kitchen is different from the way that other chefs I’ve worked with run theirs. It’s like a recipe. Everyone can interpret it differently. You take bits and pieces from a recipe to take the same dish and make it your own.
Someone’s management style is the same way. I’ve worked for some chefs who were very good at managing people, but in the kitchen they were not as great. And some of them were geniuses at creating dishes, but they were not the best at managing people. So you have to create your own style.
You graduated culinary school when you were very young. Would you still recommend school or encourage new chefs to learn hands-on in a kitchen?
The hard part about school versus hands-on is being able to understand exactly what [a new chef] is trying to achieve. Meaning that when I went to culinary school back in the 1980s, you wanted to graduate and get a diploma. After that, you wanted to be able to get your foot inside the door of a three Michelin star restaurant, a very famous place because you knew the chef was someone you were gonna be able to learn from.
And that [experience] was gonna take you to the next chef, that was gonna take you to the next chef, and so on. Because it’s a close-knit community, like a family. All the big chefs know each other. So when you’re ready to make your next move, the Chef [at your current kitchen] would come and ask, ‘Where do you want to go next?’ He’ll make a call and help you get that next job.
Now, unfortunately, the way some TV cooking shows happen, they give a vision of what it is to be a chef that is completely different from the truth.
So now you have cooks that go to very famous, very expensive culinary schools and they spend a huge amount of money to graduate. Then after two years of education, they expect to find a position of Executive Chef, making six figures and wearing Egyptian cotton jackets with their name on them.
But they don’t have the basics. They’re trying to run before they can walk. The biggest difference with my generation is, we went through all the processes, we didn’t try to rush the steps before you actually tried to be a chef.
You had to be a good line cook before you tried to become Chef de Partie and then [become] a good Chef de Partie before you become a Sous Chef, and then [become] a good Sous Chef, before you become an executive chef. So that’s the main difference.
Almost like an army style, you have to graduate through the ranks.
New chefs try to go too fast. Take your time. Find a chef you can learn from. New York is very lucky for that because you’ve got so many great chefs.
Daniel Boulud and all these great chefs brought the New York Culinary to the next level. Daniel Boulud has been here for 30 years now.
So go work for them, write everything down, taste everything, take pictures!
When I started, we didn’t have cell phones to take pictures, so it was whatever you could remember and whatever you could write down. Now we’ve reached a point where you can take a video of a chef doing a dish and afterwards you can write down notes.
I would say the biggest advice to the cooks right now: find a chef, find your niche, go work for him for two years, three years, four years. Write everything down, taste everything, ask questions, and then learn as much as you can.
Don’t think about being called “Chef” right away. Don’t think about making a ton of money. Learn as much as you can then, then after that, start to think about your next step. But take your time.
If you have the financial ability to be able to afford culinary school, do it, but it can be pricey. You don’t need to go to a very expensive, very famous one; but go to get some good basic training in a culinary school.
Then after that, go see a chef and say, “I just want to learn. I want to work for you. You’re the best in the business in your town.” It can be in New York. It can also be in Chicago or anywhere else. Just say, “I want to learn. I want to work for you.”
YOU MIGHT ALSO LIKE
Thanksgiving in Philly: perfect stuffing bread DOES exist – and it’s… [Find Recipe Inside]
This Thanksgiving in NYC, the perfect stuffing bread DOES exist – and it’s brioche. As in St Pierre Brioche Thanksgiving Stuffing
No Thanksgiving spread is complete without a hearty stuffing. While add-ins are a matter of preference, choosing the right bread is crucial. One underrated choice is eggy, rich brioche – and with St Pierre Bakery, you don’t need to go to France to get it.
Thanks to its butter and egg content, St Pierre’s Brioche Loaf provides the perfect balance of crisp toastiness while remaining soft and creamy inside, while its lightly sweet flavor adds a decadent quality that can still lean savory. Attached below is an approachable recipe for stuffing allowing for all the craveable crunch for the whole family with minimal effort required.
St Pierre Brioche Thanksgiving Stuffing
By @BrandiMilloy
Ingredients
1 loaf St. Pierre Brioche Bread
1/2 cup unsalted butter
1 medium onion, diced
3/4 cup celery, diced
3/4 cup carrots, diced
1 cup mushrooms, diced
2 large eggs
1 tbsp. fresh rosemary, chopped
3 sprigs fresh thyme, just the leaves
1 tbsp. fresh sage, chopped
1 small apple (granny smith works well), peeled and diced
Salt and pepper
Directions
-
Preheat oven to 350 F. Cut brioche bread into 1” cubes and bake for about 10-15 minutes until toasted.
-
Meanwhile, into a pot over medium high heat add butter until melted. Add onion, celery and carrots and cook until everything starts to soften, about 7 minutes. Add mushrooms and cook for 2 minutes longer. Remove from heat and set aside.
-
Into a bowl whisk together the eggs, herbs, apples, mushrooms, and salt and pepper. Add your cooked vegetables and mix to combine.
-
Pour mixture on top of toasted bread and stir to combine. Bake stuffing for about 45 minutes. If your stuffing starts to get too brown, cover until finished baking. Enjoy!
As America’s favorite brioche brand, St Pierre’s products are widely available via grocery stores nationwide as well as Walmart.
Southern sophistication in the City of Brotherly Love: Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails RTD Hard Tea Pours Nationwide
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails Hard Tea Launches Nationwide
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails Hard Tea – a canned ready-to-drink that launched earlier this spring in 13 test markets – is rolling out nationwide this fall.
The RTD embodies Southern sophistication with a twist.
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails Hard Tea combines black tea, ripe, true-to-fruit flavor resulting in a balanced and sweet finish. With four classic flavors carefully selected, each can was crafted to please the palates of today’s modern drinker.
Country Cocktails can be found in select retail and convenience stores across the country in a 12oz. can (ABV 5%), 12-can variety pack containing four classic flavors: Original, Peach, Raspberry, and Blackberry; with the Original & Peach offered in 16oz. and 23.5oz. single serve cans that deliver consumers a refreshing and high-quality beverage experience for those who appreciate a good tea.
- Original: Known for its full-bodied refreshing take on a Southern classic. Combining the rich taste of black tea with a sweet, true-to-fruit finish, captures the essence of Southern sweet tea. It’s the perfect drink for relaxing on the porch and enjoying good conversation.
- Peach: A floral flavor that brings the juicy, sun-ripened sweetness to life. This option offers a crisp and refreshing experience, where the delicate honeyed taste comes to the forefront of the palate making it a delightful choice for any day of the year.
- Raspberry: Delivering a vibrant tartness, yet balanced with a subtle sweetness; this flavor presents a bold and smooth drink that’s as satiating as it is refreshing.
- Blackberry: Capturing the rich and juicy essence of blackberries, it offers a slightly tangy and flavorsome experience, making it a perfect choice for consumers who enjoy the bold taste of berries with a hint of Southern charm.
Coinciding with Country Cocktails Hard Tea launch is the RTD’s partnership with ACM and two-time CMT Music Award winner, Lauren Alaina, who has accomplished one of country music’s crowning achievements – becoming the youngest member of the Grand Ole Opry.
Lauren Alaina’s small town Georgia roots, love for comfort and authenticity make her the perfect ambassador for a beverage that prides itself on delivering a taste of the South in every sip. Both Alaina and Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails symbolize Southern charm, together producing a match made partnership.
To celebrate the collaboration, Country Cocktails has partnered with Southern Living to offer fans across the country a chance to enter their sweepstakes and win a pair of tickets and flights to meet Lauren Alaina at her concert in Las Vegas at the Green Valley Ranch Backyard Amphitheater on October 25, 2024.
The sweepstakes will run from September 13 until October 11, 2024 and contestants can enter for a chance to win by visiting the link.
About Jack Daniel’s
Officially registered by the U.S. Government in 1866 and based in Lynchburg, Tenn., the Jack Daniel Distillery is the first registered distillery in the United States and is on the National Register of Historic Places.
Jack Daniel’s is the maker of the world-famous Jack Daniel’s Old No. 7 Tennessee Whiskey, Gentleman Jack Double Mellowed Tennessee Whiskey, Jack Daniel’s Single Barrel Tennessee Whiskey, Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Honey, Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Fire, Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Apple, Jack Daniel’s Bonded, Jack Daniel’s Sinatra Select, and Jack Daniel’s RTDs. Today, Jack Daniel’s is a true global icon found in more than 170 countries around the world and is the most valuable spirits brand in the world as recognized by Interbrand.
About Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails are premium malt beverages from the Jack Daniel’s Family of Brands. Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails was introduced in May 1992.
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails and their respective flavor names are registered trademarks. © 2024 Jack Daniel’s. Jack Daniel Beverage Co., Louisville, Ky. Flavored Malt Beverage.
For more information, please visit www.countrycocktails.com.
Philly Food: “The Bear” Star Matty Matheson launches #TGISunday with Pacific Foods to Tackle the Sunday Scaries
Pacific Foods, a brand known for its organic and high-quality ingredients, has launched its #TGISunday content series to help people overcome the widespread phenomenon known as the “Sunday Scaries.”
Developed in partnership with chef and television star Matty Matheson, the series is designed to transform Sunday anxiety into a time for culinary joy and inspiration.
A recent survey by Pacific Foods* revealed the deep impact of the Sunday Scaries, with the average American experiencing this pre-Monday apprehension 36 times a year. Typically, the unsettling feelings begin around 3:54 p.m. on Sundays, leading to an average of six hours and six minutes** spent in dread each week—totaling a staggering 219 hours annually.

The Bear Star Matty Matheson launches #TGISunday with Pacific Foods to Tackle the Sunday Scaries
Recognizing that cooking serves as a soothing activity for many with 31% of people finding joy in preparing meals on Sundays, Pacific Foods is addressing these anxieties by offering easy, comforting recipes through the #TGISunday content series on its website.
Matty Matheson and a group of wellness and food aficionados will share curated recipes designed to combat the Sunday Scaries and embrace the calming, restorative power of cooking to unwind and reclaim their Sundays.
Chef Matty Matheson brings his trademark enthusiasm to the kitchen, making his stance on Sundays clear by turning them into a day of culinary excitement. “Look, I know Sundays can be a drag for a lot of folks, so let’s flip that script. Let’s rock the kitchen with some serious cooking that’s all about fun and flavor without it being a chore or another worry. Cooking isn’t just about eating; it’s about chilling out and making something awesome that feeds your soul,” explains Matheson.
Matty’s unique recipe—the Spicy Shrimp Pasta Bake—will be a highlight of the series, which will also feature content from various figures known for their culinary expertise. All recipes and tips will be available through social where viewers of the #TGISunday series are encouraged to share their own meal-hacking tips using Pacific Foods products. Fans can also enter to win a custom illustrated soup mug, designed by Pacific and Matheson, to add to their Sunday rituals.
“Matty Matheson’s vibrant personality and the joy he brings to food make him a natural fit to join us in our mission to take back Sundays,” said Erika Jubinville, head of Pacific Foods marketing. “He inspires all of us to bring more fun and creativity to our cooking routine, and sparks excitement for new ways to use Pacific products.”
For more insights into the #TGISunday series, please visit pacificfoods.com/TGISunday.
About Pacific Foods
Pacific Foods was founded in 1987 in Tualatin, Ore. and was acquired by Campbell Soup Company in 2017. For more than 150 years, Campbell (NASDAQ:CPB) has been connecting people through food they love. Generations of consumers have trusted us to provide delicious and affordable food and beverages. Headquartered in Camden, N.J. since 1869, the company generated fiscal 2023 net sales of $9.4 billion. Our portfolio includes iconic brands such as Campbell’s, Cape Cod, Goldfish, Kettle Brand, Lance, Late July, Milano, Michael Angelo’s, noosa, Pace, Pacific Foods, Pepperidge Farm, Prego, Rao’s, Snyder’s of Hanover, Swanson and V8. Campbell has a heritage of giving back. The company is a member of the Standard & Poor’s 500 as well as the FTSE4Good and Bloomberg Gender-Equality Indices. For more information, visit www.campbellsoupcompany.com.
About the Author
Joe Wehinger (nicknamed Joe Winger) has written for over 20 years about the business of lifestyle and entertainment. Joe is an entertainment producer, media entrepreneur, public speaker, and C-level consultant who owns businesses in entertainment, lifestyle, tourism and publishing. He is an award-winning filmmaker, published author, member of the Directors Guild of America, International Food Travel Wine Authors Association, WSET Level 2 Wine student, WSET Level 2 Cocktail student, member of the LA Wine Writers. Email to: Joe@FlavRReport.comYou Might also like
-
Pasta Sauce Gets Sensitive: All-natural, Best-selling Yo Mama’s Foods Launches Sensitive Marinara
All-natural, Best-selling Handcrafted pasta sauce: Yo Mama’s Foods Launches Sensitive Marinara
Yo Mama’s Foods, the all-natural, best-selling handcrafted pasta sauce company, is adding Sensitive Marinara to their collection of fresh tomato sauces.
This Mama-approved recipe is specially designed for those following low-FODMAP diets or sensitive to alliums and is low-sodium, preservative-free, Paleo-friendly, low-glycemic, and without added sugar.
Yo Mama’s Foods Launches Sensitive Marinara
Pure Tomato Sauce Perfect for Sensitive Systems
Amazon’s Favorite Sauce Brand Delivers
a low-FODMAP Marinara packed with Fresh FlavorCrafted without onions, garlic, and oil yet with all of the fresh flavor Yo Mama’s Marinara is known for, the Sensitive Marinara is a delicious and considerate choice for individuals with dietary sensitivities.
“So many of our customers have requested an onion and garlic-free marinara that we knew he had to develop a fantastic one…”
David Habib
Yo Mama’s Founder.
“…Crafted from fresh tomatoes, fresh carrots, white wine and fresh spices, this allium-free sauce is bright in flavor and a great swap in your favorite recipes,” said David Habib, Yo Mama’s Founder.
Yo Mama’s Foods crafts sauces that recreate the homemade, authentic tastes that would typically take hours over a stove to prepare, making it easy for home cooks to enjoy healthy, quick-to-prepare dishes for their loved ones every night of the week.
In 26-ounce jars with a suggested retail price of $9, Yo Mama’s Sensitive Marinara is available at H-E-B and Amazon, with additional retailers to be announced soon.
Yo Mama’s Foods is on a mission
Yo Mama’s Foods is on a mission to bring the world back to the table through healthy and delicious foods. Yo Mama’s Foods proudly crafts all pasta sauces, salad dressings, and condiments using only ingredients that Mom has in her kitchen. Since our launch on Mother’s Day 2017, Yo Mama’s distribution has grown to more than 24,000 retail stores nationwide.You can find more information at www.yomamafoods.com and follow them on Instagram @yomamasfoods.
Post Views: 5,431 -
Philly Loves Geek Culture: Chris Gore’s “Attack Of the Doc!”Premieres April 24
Chris Gore’s “Attack Of the Doc!” Comes To Audiences Across North America Timed to G4TV’s 21st Anniversary
Prolific author, film critic, founder of Film Threat, regular on-air personality for G4TV’s “Attack of the Show,” and beloved comic con staple, Chris Gore makes his directorial debut with “Attack of the Doc!” “Attack of the Doc!” addresses all the questions left unanswered by the cancellation of G4TV and Attack of the Show!
The show’s hosts Olivia Munn and Kevin Pereira
Host Olivia Munn
Perfectly timed to the 21st anniversary of G4TV this year. G4TV’s Attack of the Show! was a birthplace for nerd culture on broadcast TV and where audiences watched the careers of the show’s hosts Olivia Munn and Kevin Pereira begin their ascent.
Host Kevin Pereira
“Attack of the Doc!” world premières April 21st
Oscar winner and filmmaking legend James Cameron appeared on the show
“Attack of the Doc!” will world première on April 21st offering Q&A’s with Goreat the Frida Cinema in Southern California, and will be available through Indie Rights for audiences across all TVOD/Digital platforms and Video On Demand throughout North America on April 24th, 2023, which is the 21st Anniversary of the launch of G4TV.
“Attack of the Doc!” writer, director, producer, and geek culture legend Chris Gore
“Attack of the Doc!” is written, directed & produced by Chris Gore, produced & edited by Bobby Schwartz, co-produced by Walter Areas, with additional co-editing by Anthony Ray Bench and Phillip H. Eubanks, and with an original score composed by Austin Smith.
This deep dive documentary features pop icons including Wil Wheaton, John Cena, Joel McHale, Peter Jackson, Kumail Nanjiani, Whitney Cummings, Danny Pudi, Eric Andre, Jerry Stiller, Joe Rogan, Jimmy Fallen, Kel Mitchell, Anne Meara, Stan Lee, Sara Jean Underwood, Carrie Keagan, Riley Steele, Tom Green, Anthony Daniels, Michael Winslow, Joey Kern, Joan Rivers, Chris Hardwick, Robert Kirkman, Greg Nicotero, Jessica Chobot, Tony Hawk, and Alison Haislip, among others as we search for the truth.
“Attack of the Show! was unique, way ahead of its time and was a milestone that had a huge impact on geek culture. Its core audience is one of the most coveted around the globe. I think viewers of the original show will be down for learning the history of the network and the show which helped usher in the age of nerd culture. Frankly, G4TV and Attack of the Show! are responsible for making it cool to be a nerd,” states Gore. “And at the end of the day, I hope the documentary entertains fans and reminds them of a time when a TV show could be dangerous and provide some laughs without fear of being canceled. Everyone who worked on the documentary is a super fan, so this movie was made by fans for fans.”
Attack of the Doc! Synopsis
Before the rise of big tech, social media and Marvel movies, Attack of the Show! chronicled nerd culture’s unlikely acceptance as mainstream. G4TV’s flagship show launched the careers of hosts Olivia Munn and Kevin Pereira and was beloved by fans – a unique celebration of geek culture before it was cool. Diving into colossal cream pies, wearing fat suits for comedy and putting internet servers where the sun don’t shine – anything could happen on an episode of Attack of the Show! It’s been years since the show went off the air and one question has lingered: what really happened to G4TV and Attack of the Show? Enter Attack Of The Doc! — the new film written and directed by Chris Gore, promises to answer one of pop culture’s longest running mysteries.Tickets available here for the April 21st premiere, and watch the trailer here.
Follow the documentary and its journey available on Video on Demand and TVOD/Digital platforms on April 24th, 2023, which is the 21st Anniversary of the launch of G4TV.
Post Views: 498 -
Philly Cocktails! Now Madre Mezcal offers a Gateway to a Better Taste
Philly Cocktails! Now Madre Mezcal offers a Gateway to a Better Taste
Today’s conversation is with Ryan Fleming from Madre Mezcal. The LA nightlife veteran reveals his time working behind the bar in some of Southern California’s hottest spots, as well as the inspiration that got him to travel to Mexico, discovering Mezcal.
The aroma, flavors, science and food pairings for Mezcal.
Love Tequila? Discover the Gateway to better taste with Madre Mezcal’s Ryan Fleming
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, unedited conversation, visit our YouTube Channel.
“…I’ve been a big Mezcal lover before I ever sold it…”
Joe Winger: Can you share the behind the scenes or how the brand itself was created?
Ryan Fleming: I’ve been a big Mezcal lover before I ever even sold it or made a dollar doing that. So I got to actually meet Ron Cooper, who is the legend that started the Del Maguey label back in 2011.
I got to drink rabbit Pachuca with him and all these other amazing things. The reason I bring him up is he’s a kind of one of the people that we look up to, how to sustainably bring a brand and how to create culture that crosses boundaries in a sense.
He has a beautiful book that I recommend anyone to read if you haven’t read Ron Cooper’s book.
But we share a similar story. One of our founding partners, Tony Farfalla and one of my good friends, Stefan Tony’s an artist and he was literally traveling through Oaxaca doing documentaries and embracing the art and culture. He happened to meet Jose Morales, which is the first family we ever worked with.
If you have original bottles of Madre [Mezcal] before the labels have changed, it used to say Jose’s name on the bottle.
So Tony was bringing bottles back to Brooklyn in plastic water bottles and it snowballed. His friends in Brooklyn were like, this stuff’s great. Started out in plastic water bottles in 2014. I think it was 2016 when our first glass bottles actually came by and we became like of a more legit brand and company. But it started with Tony and Stefan; and they brought on our CEO and COO, Chris and Davide.
Chris actually is one of the founding driving forces in the electronic scene in the 90s in Europe. Chris comes from a very artistic, music based background. Then he went on to work for some bigger alcohol brands in the vodka world.
Davide, who is our COO, my direct boss, who I love, is Italian and his whole family built furniture and he got his big break by importing and bringing furniture over [to the United States]. He also works with a beautiful high end apparel line.
“…everyone has a very unique artistic background, which really reflects the brand and the label…”
So everyone has a very unique artistic background, which really reflects the brand and the label. Just not wanting to make a quick buck and actually make something we can stand behind and believe in.
As the families now blossom into four, we use three: the Vasquez family, the Blas family and the Morales family are our three main producers for our red and black label, which most people are familiar with.
We just brought in Moises and he’s actually from Santa Catarina Minas. That’s a little town where all they really make is their production. It’s a town known for nothing but clay pot distillation. So if you actually use a copper pot in, in Manera and Santa Caterina Minas, you’re looked at as what are you doing? That’s not what we do here.
He’s our last and newest producer and he may be the most cowboy of them all, and he’s my favorite.
When you get to Tlaxcala, you have to walk over like a little rope bridge over like a river and stuff into the hills of Minas to see his production, and he’s got his grandfather’s old still, and he’s got his mom’s little kitchen that he wants to reopen, and it’s like a restaurant. But if you and I were to look at it, it just looks like a backyard set of tables and chairs with a cooking center.
No, this is a restaurant for the village. It’s really beautiful down in Minas. I recommend everyone, if you get a chance to go down there, it felt like the jungles in Costa Rica, cause it’s up near the hills and it’s just so green and lush up there.
“…I’ve been working in the alcohol industry for almost 15 years …”
Joe Winger: What got you down there? Was it for a vacation or for Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
So I’ve been working in the alcohol industry for almost 15 years and I worked for the Houston Hospitality Group for over a decade, helping run programs and menus. I worked for a couple other restaurants, but I used to work for Stillhouse Whiskey, which many people remember the terrible flavored moonshine in a gas can.
Yeah I actually sold that. I did pretty well, there was always one flavor that someone loved. I had the mint chocolate chip and I would keep it in the freezer to take care of my sweet tooth when I didn’t have ice cream. So that’s how it started.
My buddy, Stefan, who’s one of the founding partners goes, “Hey, we got this Mezcal company.” I was just basically consulting for free lunches.
One day he goes, do you want to go to Oaxaca? And I went, absolutely.
I familiar with going down to Mexico city, but I’d never been as far South as Oaxaca. So I jumped at the chance.
[Meanwhile] we all got an email from Stillhouse saying “Hey, I know things are being shaken up right now, but trust me, everything’s fine. Don’t worry about it.”
That weekend, apparently the whole team got laid off, but I didn’t get the email untll I came home Monday. They’re saying, “Ryan, are you going to be okay? Do you need help finding work?”
So I went down to Oaxaca, met the families, broke bread with Jose Morales, got to meet his mother who blessed the roast and cooked us dinner. They offered me a job.
That was started my journey about six years ago with Madre [Mezcal ]and I’ve been with him since.
Fleming motions to tattoos on his arms and hands.
Discovering Madre Mezcal
I have it tattooed on my hand right here. I have it tattooed on my palm right here. And I think I have another one on the inside of my leg too. We do tasting events and we’ll have pop up tattoo artists all the time.
Tequila vs Madre Mezcal
Joe Winger:
You mentioned the tastings and the education. Are there quick lessons that you teach the most often?
Ryan Fleming:
Basic production, culture, financial, environmental and economic sustainability.
I don’t think people understand that Oaxaca is the second poorest state in Mexico. Everyone thinks the Mezcal boom must be bringing so many jobs, but it really only affects about 20 – 40,000 people that live in Oaxaca for the production,
Mezcal is great because it does bring some financial sustainability to the families. Jose started off driving a taxi to pay his bills and now he’s making Mezcal in his family’s tradition. His whole family, his cousin, his uncles, they all make Mezcal for a living now.
There’s so much culture behind it. Even the old argument of did the Spanish bring over copper stills and that started distillation or does it go back to the Aztecs and Mayans? Because they found distillate and pottery from 3000 years ago. It’s those little nuances.
People really like to talk about the environmental, but giving back to the people down there by not just buying product, but giving them some ownership, which Madre does do, so that everyone has a little bit of skin in the game.
So I think Sustainability, whether it’s environmental, economical, cultural, and production. Those are the things I really like to talk about.
Joe Winger: What is the basic difference between mezcal and tequila? Or is it more complicated?
Ryan Fleming:
You could say production techniques, additives, mass production are probably the three biggest differences.
Tequila can only be made with one agave. It’s a blue weber. Mezcal can be made with the other 47-ish varietals, and that number is always fluctuating, based on classification and family genius.
Production is the big one. Tequila is made in massive factories and made with either chemicals or steam for the most part.
Whereas mezcal is actually made by hand, roasted in an earthen oven. The biggest thing that separates Tequila and Mezcal is the 1% additive rule.
Tequila can have up to 1% by volume additives, and they don’t have to tell you. That’s why certain large brands will say 100% Agave, but it’s full of additives, because it doesn’t take much with modern chemistry. Just a couple drops of glycerin or vanilla extract to change the flavor and hide all the nuances.
Mezcal can’t have any additives by law.
Joe Winger: Can we walk through the roles and responsibilities between the families that produce Madre Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
Yeah, the four families. Let’s start with Jose Morales. Him and his brother both make mezcal. Now they produce for us in the US exclusively. We encourage all of our families to continue making mezcal to trade. They use it for a local economy.
Every time I go down there, [their operation is growing]. When they started, they had three stills. Now there’s 12 up and running and they have solar power. It’s just so crazy to see how much the transformation has happened.
The original recipe, the blend of cuishe and espadine at 90 proof, that’s his family’s recipe. So we expanded that and we brought on Carlos Blas and the Vasquez family. Unfortunately, Natalio the father passed away a couple of years ago.
His daughters are now producing in the family’s tradition and we take whatever we can from them.
But what we do, that’s a little bit different is, we started out when it was just Jose, he was making the blend himself. Now we have them make the espadine and the cuishe separately.
All three families are part of the process. Sometimes we just get cuiche from Jose. Sometimes Carlos makes all the espadine, but Carlos is like a master blender.
We blend a cold style like Scotch does. Even though it’s not the most traditional way, all the distillation and process is as true as it can be.
But by blending post distillation allows us to keep consistency, which was a huge problem because every batch with your wild fermentation, your wild yeast and all these beautiful nuances, it’ll be inconsistent as you grow as a brand. It was hard for us to keep consistency.
But by blending multiple terroirs and three different families’ production, we can keep a consistent product that tastes the same as well as expanding and bringing on more families to help instead of just going to a large factory house and not making what I would call “traditional Mezcal.”
Joe Winger: So focusing on your background, you mentioned that you’ve been a bartender in the LA nightlife. Any memorable adventures or lessons you can share?
Ryan Fleming:
There are some stories I could tell that I probably don’t want to share publicly. But there are some amazing stories I can tell.
One of the oddest experiences I’ve ever had, I worked at Good Times at Davey Wayne’s, which is one of the most famous bars in the Hollywood nightlife in the past decade.
Paul McCartney showed up at our door.
But because our staff is younger and our door guys are a little bit younger, they thought it was an old weird British man that just showed up and they turned Paul McCartney away from the door.
‘Holy crap, is that Paul McCartney’?
He was like, do you know who I am? The guys [were like] ”We don’t care.” Like straight up, blowing Paul McCartney off. One of our managers came out and was like, ‘Holy crap, is that Paul McCartney’? And they’re like, wait, the guy from the Beatles?!
My manager ran out, “Please come back,” and Paul had a great time at the bar. We got him a special little area to sit down. It was a packed Saturday. It’s not a nightclub where we have gated off [areas]. Even if you reserve a table, people are inches away from you where you’re sitting at your table.
Justin Bieber showed up one time and everyone went nuts. He comes in, walks around, does a loop, comes out and goes, “I thought this was a hip hop club.” and just left.
It was a 1970s themed bar and we played nothing but 70s music.
The dichotomy between the two different generations and to see them all melt into one location was one of the coolest things about working at that bar.
Joe Winger:It’s so crowded because it’s so popular. The Houston Brothers always do such a good job.
Ryan Fleming:
Yeah. The cocktails are still really good too. For as much volume as we used to do there, the biggest thing is how can I make a really beautiful cocktail that’s still cost effective and doesn’t take 12 steps. We got really good at batching stuff and figuring out how to infuse things. Luckily our back of house was just the most amazing. Mariano is the best barback I’ve ever had in my whole life. He’s still there.
He is just a workhorse that got all the infusions. He would cook, he would infuse all of our products and he was just great. Even if we just did a jalapeno infusion on our tequila, if it got too spicy, he could break down the ratio and water it down with more products so that we could keep the spice level approachable.
Joe Winger:
What is the secret to high quantity yet high value cocktails?
Ryan Fleming:
Batching is definitely the way to do it. Any of your alcohols that are shelf stable, you want to put all of those in the proper ratios in a bottle.
Instead of grabbing a modifier and your base spirit and another modifier, you’re grabbing one bottle with a special tape at the bottom, so you know which cocktail it goes to and then all your fresh stuff.
You can’t batch the fresh stuff. It has to be separated because you put citrus in something and it goes bad in three days. Now the whole batch is bad. So keeping your fresh stuff separated.
Joe Winger: Back to Madre Mezcal. Obviously the bottles themselves are where all the power is. So let’s talk about labels and taste profiles.
Ryan Fleming:
People love our labels. Our branding is top notch. It’s one of the first compliments we always get. “Oh my God, I love your branding.”
Madre Mezcal Artesanal
Looked at Oaxacan culture and some other like medieval culture and combined the art from the two.
As far as the red label it’s the woman on the bull. It’s a really beautiful message of Mother Earth coming down and starting to share humanity and move across the world to plants and spread love. That’s why she’s on the bull. It’s the combination of animal, Mother Earth, and humans.
Madre Mezcal Espandin
The black label is a beautiful logo of a woman on the ground. She’s planting and spreading the seed of life that gives us agave and flowers and fruit and vegetables and everything else.
Madre Mezcal Ancestral
The ancestral is this beautiful clay bottle with old clay vessels from Greece that carried wine with the fluid coming out and it’s supposed to celebrate the ancestral way of making mezcal and clay pots and clay distillation.
I always love telling the story of people who say mezcal is not supposed to be aged, which is a true-ish statement in my opinion. But back in the day, everything got transferred in barrels. So Mezcal would accidentally get aged in barrels because it would travel from town to town on horseback after the product was made.
So the idea that Mezcal was never aged is it wasn’t aged on purpose.
Mezcal was accidentally aged in wood. The traditional way that people would age Mezcal is in glass and they would hide it underground.
I always tell people, if you have a beautiful bottle of Mezcal, you should open it and take it out and put a wine cork in it, or at least crack the bottle and get some air because it really lets alcohol open up and aerate.
Mezcal benefits from a resting period. Pouring it in a nice open glass, like a snifter or a wine glass, letting it sit for about 5-10 minutes will really open it up.
Madre Mezcal tasting notes
Madre is designed to be less smoky. I really hate the term smoky. I like the word roasted because what you’re tasting is like barbeque.
You’re tasting the roasting of the agave and the charcoaling and the burning of the outside agave which will affect the sugars, the caramelization.
Madre really was designed to be a more approachable mezcal. We call ourselves ”The gateway to the category.”
We want to bring people from tequila over to Mezcal so you can explore what agave spirits also have to offer.
It’s bright, clean, and smooth. I always compare it to a really nice, made tequila.
Our Espadine is actually a close cousin of [tequila’s] Blue Weber. It tastes really bright, clean and smooth. But you’re going to get some of that minerality and smoke in the end.
Like easy drinking with some earthy aromas.
Joe Winger: That night when I met you, what you handed me was my first taste of the night. I love that it was so pure and smooth. It didn’t clog up my mouth for the rest of the night.
Ryan Fleming:
I’m like you. I want to have 2-3 cocktails a night. Not just one and my palette’s done.
Our Espadine to me is a 2-3 second palette. It clears up and you get like a breath and it’s fading. Our Ensemble goes on for 10- 12 seconds. From sweet vanilla to chocolate to mineral and then to smoke. Then the smoke fades and you get just a really beautiful, crisp. It’s viscous. You can feel the oil in your mouth when you swirl it around and it makes the best Negroni.
Joe Winger: Let’s talk about food pairings.
Ryan Fleming:
I want to know if this caught you off guard, but it’s Italian food.
Very rich foods. These beautiful Mezcals are light and almost floral and fragrant, It cuts through the richness and creaminess of food.
That’s why mezcal and chocolate are consistently paired together, but that was just way too easy. There’s always mezcal chocolate pairings, but like a really nice Italian dish, something creamy and rich, like an Alfredo or a really well done piece of pizza, like a margarita or a white sauce pizza.
“…I want to know if this caught you off guard, but…”
We are working on doing some [pizza] pairings with some places in LA. Do a different slice of pizza with three different cocktails of Madre and then have a tasting at the end.
Chocolate has a big part of Oaxaca too. You can’t not have some chocolate and mezcal at the end of the night.
Espresso martinis are so hot again right now. Try making one with mezcal instead of vodka and just [see] how coffee helps open up the agave and the notes, and you’re going to get so much more going on in your cocktail.
If you pair a nice espresso martini with beautiful, dark chocolate from Oaxaca. That is your final cocktail at the end of the night, it won’t let you down.
Joe Winger: You mentioned replacing Mezcal with vodka in a martini, are there any traditional or more common cocktails we should also try replacing Mezcal in?
Ryan Fleming:
When I tell you this, it may blow your mind. Most gin cocktails are a little bit better with Mezcal.
There are certain times you need botanicals, but a lot of really good classic gin cocktails, if you sub them for Mezcal, are absolutely fantastic.
Joe Winger: I’m shocked because most gins have such unique aromatics.
Ryan Fleming:
Which Mezcal has so many of those same unique terpenes going on that it changes the cocktail, but it works.
So instead of having botanicals, you have all these beautiful vegetal and mineral notes that just come from agaves.
Joe Winger: What are the biggest misconceptions in the world of Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
A lot of people have a misconception, especially on the trade side, that we have grown exponentially. It’s been a lot of hard work. People think we have this massive team behind us. There’s less than 20 of us on the whole team. That includes our team down in Oaxaca, who watches over manufacturing and production for us down there.
We don’t have an office. We have a little tiny apartment in Venice for meetings.
A lot of people don’t understand the hard work that goes into creating a small brand. It’s just a lot of people working hard to create beautiful Mezcal, especially the families.
People [unfairly comparing it to] tequila. What do you mean, we can’t get more? Why is it so expensive? We have people going out hand collecting wild agaves and harvesting espadine. All of that is hand cut, hand chopped. I’ve hand cut agaves with the families.
None of this is industrialized or mechanized like tequila.
Appreciate every drop of mezcal you have, because someone put a lot of love and labor into it.
Joe Winger: Ryan, as we wrap up, let’s talk about where can learn more about Madre Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
We have a beautiful Instagram. Madremezcal.com is our website.
We also have this Instagram called mezcal. Learning and it’s a little short videos and little blurbs to talk about production, families, history, and culture. It is focused on Madre, but it’s not just Madre, it’s Mezcal as a whole.
If you want to know more about our families who produce, where it’s made, you can find all that information on madremezgal. com.
Our bottles are in most of your nicer bottle shops, liquor stores. In California, we’re lucky enough to be in Trader Joe’s for the Espadine and Whole Foods has our Ensemble.
If you can’t find it, go to madremezcal.com and we ship bottles to almost every state in the U S.
We’re in nine countries, too. Australia. All over Europe, Costa Rica. We’re working on Japan and South Korea as well. So I’m just excited to see the culture of mezcal just expand beyond just America and see how excited because I, when I talk to people that are in London or, people in Australia, and they’re so excited about the idea of being able to get mezcal.
Joe Winger: What is the future for Madre?
Ryan Fleming: I can’t tell you about the big one.
But, [exciting things for] our Ancestral, which is pretty new and every batch of that’s going to be hand numbered and labeled.
We’re going to start doing small batch productions that will be very limited. Then the desert waters, which we have ready for summer.
To learn more about MadreMezcal, visit MadreMezcal.com. Find them on Instagram at MadreMezcal
Post Views: 1,335