Incredible Bordeaux wines from Chateau Haut Grelot leads the way with Julien Bonneau
Today Chateau Haut Grelot’s Julien Bonneau visited to talk Bordeaux winemaking, their legendary wine region, his family’s pioneering legacy, his favorite food and wine pairings.
Chateau Haut Grelot’s Julien Bonneau
Can you tell us a little bit about what inspires you about the wine business? Maybe a memory or wine celebration.
Julien: As you imagine in Bordeaux, or even in France, most of the wine business is a family business. It’s very father and a son or daughter. There’s always this kind of takeover.
Chateau Haut Grelot’s Bonneau Family
I grew up with my father and he was always into wine, tasting wine. ’Oh, you should smell the wine and making me discover the wine from when I was a very young child. And so I didn’t want to take over the company.
I didn’t wanna take over the story about the wine, but I had one weakness: I love wine actually. I like wine very much, so it was very hard to say no.
Chateau Haut Grelot
I don’t want to take over. But I like wine anyway. I went to business school. I went to New Zealand and England to learn the wine trade. It was a very nice experience.
Then I came back to the wine business and started again to make wine, to discover the wine business through the company. That was probably my first step. When you start taking a foot in the wine business, then you never go back.
Obviously, it’s a passion to grow and grow because making wine is like growing a child. You start from the vineyard and then you go to making wine and then to age the wine in barrels. Then you put it in a bottle just to show your wine to your customers.
Chateau Haut Grelot’s Julien Bonneau
Looking at your winery’s history. 1920, 1927 was a big year for your vineyard. 1975 was a big year for your father.
Can you tell us a little bit about the background of the vineyard? Up to the more modern technology your vineyard has pioneered.
I’m the fourth generation in my family’s wine business. So my grandfather used to have cows for breeding. Vineyards, asparagus, as well. So it was just a culture after the war.
My father started in 1978 and he focused on the wine business.
He wanted to make and grow quality wine. Very tasty wine. [His goal] changed a lot of things about the process of winemaking to develop very aromatic, long aging. So we started to make a range of wine: white wine, rosé, a bit sparkling as well.
He went to see the customer directly in the north of France, in Europe. He tried to sell directly and not through negociants. That’s the main story because in AOC Blaye which is north of Bordeaux on the right bank of the river, negociants were necessary through the distribution to sell the wine.
The big challenge was, ‘No. You don’t want to pay more for my wine, I’m going directly to the customer. I don’t want to go and to carry on sitting through a negotiation because you don’t trust me on quality wine and you don’t pay more for the wine. So we’ll stop sending to negociants. And go directly to the customer, private customers, wine shop, restaurant, wine importers.’
That was 1984 and 1985. It was a very different direction. It changed a lot compared to what happened in Bordeaux at that time. We started to control our distribution. From that time, he developed a lot of quality wine, he invested in new vineyards, bigger and bigger, and also buying some barrels and new equipment to make very good quality wine.
He loves saying ‘I was the first in 1990 to make green harvesting.’ Green harvesting is cutting some grapes in August. So one month earlier than the harvest to remove a bit of quantity and to make better quality. So he removed grapes in the vineyard to produce better concentration on the grapes left on the field.
That was his focus, it was an improvement in quality wine. From that time, we carried on. What I changed is, I make more wines, different wines, different quality wines. But still focusing on quality wine. I do more than 30 wines – different quality, colors, and winemaking process.
Let’s talk about your region, and how those elements inform the wines that you’re making?
Julien: We are located in AOC Blaye, north of Bordeaux, one hour driving up.
On the right bank of the river. So opposite to Saint-Estèphe, you have AOC Saint-Estèphe, you cross the river, the main river, and you are in AOC Blaye.
Where we are located we are mostly very gravelly. We have two types of terroir. For the red grapes Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Malbec.
Gravelly soil to help have early harvesting and early maturation for nice harvesting. The second is more on clay soil, for the Sauvignon Blanc for the Semillon and Muscadet to make more powerful wine. Two very distinguished terroirs.
The climate is very moderate, oceanic influence but also very warm during the summer. We are very hot right now. It’s a very hot summer so that’s helped a lot to have very ripe grapes.
North of Bordeaux is quite hilly so it helps to have very nice exposure to the sun. For us, it’s very important to have ripe grapes. So we need to look for the sun and remove the leaves in front of the grapes. It helps to keep the freshness in the wine and still have very ripe grapes.
Let’s talk about your winemaking process.
AOC Bordeaux or AOC Blaye Côtes de Bordeaux, we have very strict rules. We need to have the vineyard on a hill. You need to respect 6,000 bottles per hectare of production.
Then we have nine months of winemaking before bottling it. So for us we make one year, even sometimes two years after, focusing more on quality wine.
AOC rules are just a basis. We try to make higher quality by aging and also to decrease the quantity of grapes per hectare to focus on sun contact for the grapes to have very ripe and very juicy grapes before harvesting. So we are very much challenging and controlling this aspect.
For example, in September, I walk every day, all my vineyards, just to check on the quality.
We try to get the aroma window. According to the evolution of the aroma on a grape, on a palate, we say ‘the window is there’, so we need to get it. It’s not only analysis from a laboratory, but it’s mostly from the palette. ‘How’s it taste?’
It’s the same as when you cook, you taste your sauce all the time.
Let’s talk about your wines. Can you talk us through some of the wines that you have?
Première Cuvée Red 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux
Première Cuvée Red 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux
Ruby red in the glass. Lovely nose with red berries, vanilla and spicy flavors. Very drinkable. Fruit forward with medium body. Well-balanced with long and aromatic finish
Château Haut Grelot Sauvignon Blanc Côtes de Blaye 2022
Château Haut Grelot Sauvignon Blanc Côtes de Blaye 2022
Classic Bordeaux blend: 90% Sauvignon Blanc, 5% Sémillon & 5% Muscadelle. Floral, crisp, elegant. Exotic fruit on the nose with grapefruit and wild herbs. Generous citrus on the palate. Full body, almost velvety with a decadent finish.
Perfect to pair with seafood, chicken, fresh salads and cheese boards.
Pin Franc Red 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux, red wine
Pin Franc Red 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux
Big gush of red fruit, red currant, raspberry, blueberry on the nose. Big body, well-balance. Very muscular with silky and structured tannins. A long finish.
Enjoy as an aperitif or pair with game, pigeon, lamb, turkey, or as a dessert with chocolate.
Chemin de l’Estuaire Red 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux
Chemin de l’Estuaire Red 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux
Powerful, bold, muscular. 100% cabernet sauvignon. A v ery special bottle, aged for 16 months in small oak barrels. A lush, velvety mouthfeel with medium tannin and a long, vanilla finish.
Boir Pour Voir 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux, Orange Wine
Boir Pour Voir 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux
100% Sauvignon Gris
On the nose, citrus and orange zest aromas. Light body, light tannin. A tart bitterness on the palette with medium finish. Enjoy as an aperitif, or pairs with hard cheeses and desserts.
Julien: We have a wide range of wine. But I’m going to start with…
[Première Cuvée Red 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux, red wine]
Which is very fruity wine. This one is more classic Bordeaux style.
For the white is [Château Haut Grelot Sauvignon Blanc Côtes de Blaye 2022].
For 90% and very fruity, juicy, very aromatic fruit, grapefruit, and also passion fruit and it’s very easy drinking very easy drinking, very crisp.
The red is 70% of Merlot, 30% of Cabernet sauvignon. Wine aging on the lees a bit just to bring a bit of fatness. Strawberry character.
Both wines are very drinkable. Don’t need to age too much. Lovely with sushi, seafood, tuna, all fish. It works pretty well with meat. So that’s my two first classic range of Bordeaux style.
Then I have Parfum, which is 100% Malbec. [Chemin de l’Estuaire Red 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux]. Fruity, easy drinking, not too heavy as Argentina wines or Malbec wine. It’s more of a freshness and very licorice character.
The Cabernet Sauvignon is aged in barrels for one year, very select grapes.
We make a very good balance between the fruit from the Cabernet and the barrels. From aging typical from wine. That’s two different wines which is this one a bit more on the liquorized fruit freshness side, and this one is very elegant.
Lastly is orange wine. Bois Pauvoir, which is a sauvignon grape. [Boir Pour Voir 2020, Blaye Côtes-de-Bordeaux]
The story of this wine was Bois Pauvoir. It’s orange wine. I never made it before, but I wanted to make a wine which says let’s try to see how it’s going. And that means in French, “let’s try, you will see.”
Going back to cooking, what are some of your favorite things to eat with these bottles?
Julien: I’ll say for Sauvignon Blanc, this one is lovely with tuna. Rare tuna. Even tataki tuna. It has a very fresh character, very nice acidity and it’s very well matched with tuna.
This is one who can match pretty much with many things, but if you like pasta with tomato. Easy drinking freshness. Very drinkable. Not too heavy and you have acidity in a tomato with pasta and that keeps your freshness.
It pairs well with game. I like pigeon with a side of onions. Even lamb is very nice. It works pretty well with white meat. You can say beef as well. Roasted beef on a barbecue with carrots and peppers.
That’s very long, which is very a bit unusual, but it’s lovely with cheese. Even with fish in tomato sauce. Sea bass or grilled octopus. Yeah, it could be a very nice match.
How can we find more about you and your wines?
It would be fantastic to go on Instagram and follow us and follow our story about how we try to develop in the U.S. You can also visit our website to learn more.
Take the Train to NYC for a Prosecco Adventure! Taste and Discover with Wine Expert Alan Tardi Wed June 26th at New York Wine Studio
Prosecco has gone from a little known mountain fizz to a vinous superhero, overtaking Champagne (and every other sparkling wine out there) and enjoyed by wine drinkers throughout the world, as the base of a cocktail or an everyday quaff.
But despite its huge popularity, most people don’t know much about it.
And there is much more to Prosecco than many people are aware.
”My objective is to
clarify the critical differences
between the original ancient Conegliano Valdobbiadene Prosecco and
the DOC Prosecco that was enacted in 2010.”
Alan Tardi
New York Wine Studio
Prosecco is produced only in Italy, in the Northern regions of Veneto and Friuli, and there are three official Prosecco appellations.
Prosecco DOC
One of them, Prosecco DOC, was created in 2010. It occupies a huge, mostly flat area encompassing almost two entire regions and accounts for most of the 700+ million bottles of Prosecco produced each year.
Conegliano Valdobbiadene Prosecco DOCG
Conegliano Valdobbiadene Prosecco DOCG is a tiny area in the foothills of the Dolomites consisting of 15 small municipalities in the province of Treviso. This is the ancient winegrowing area where Prosecco was born and made a miraculous comeback in the aftermath of World War II.
New York Wine Studio’s Alan Tardi
Besides its pedigree, there are numerous factors of the Conegliano Valdobbiadene enclave that distinguish it from any other winegrowing area in the world: complex and diverse topography, variety of soils, native grape varieties, distinct sub-areas, ancient history, and varied typology—bubbly, fizzy, and still; secondary fermentation in tank or in bottle, leaving sediment in the bottle (known as Ancestral Method) or removing it (Traditional Method).
In this class—which takes place right in the middle of National Prosecco DOC week—we will discuss the origin and evolution of Prosecco in the Conegliano Valdobbiadene area. We will also examine the two additional Prosecco appellations created in 2010.
But most of the time will be devoted to exploring and tasting Conegliano Valdobbiadene Prosecco through a lineup of 8 exceptional terroir-driven wines, in a variety of styles, that demonstrate the unique characteristics, complexity, and diversity of the original Prosecco.
Participants will also learn how to say “CONEGLIANO VALDOBBIADENE” like an Italian!
Alan Tardi has arranged a fantastic lineup of unusual and exceptional wines (half of them are coming directly from Italy) which demonstrate the various factors that characterize the complexity and uniqueness of Conegliano Valdobbiadene: Different production methods (“Tranquillo” i.e. still, Martinotti, Classico/Traditional, Ancestral); frizzante, spumante; single vineyards, Rive, native grape varieties; diverse, soils, terroirs and topographies.
Bob Dylan’s Bourbon Feud: Heaven’s Door Kentucky vs Tennessee
Heaven’s Door Spirits, Bob Dylan’s highly awarded collection of super-premium American whiskeys, is turning up the heat on the age-old debate of which state, Tennessee or Kentucky, makes the best bourbon.
For as long as corn’s been cracked and stills have bubbled, Kentucky and Tennessee have been turning pristine limestone water and grains into a coveted amber elixir.
Heaven’s Door’s Great State Bourbon Debate rekindles the friendly feud
Heaven’s Door’s Great State Bourbon Debate rekindles the friendly feud between these two bourbon powerhouses, inviting whiskey lovers everywhere to put their palates to the test and voice their opinion.
Heaven’s Door sets itself apart as the first brand to offer both a Kentucky and Tennesseebourbon, giving fans a unique chance to compare.
The brand’s Kentucky Straight Bourbon, Ascension, and Tennessee Straight Bourbon, Revival, are made from high rye mash bills with grains largely sourced local to the distillery, and barreled at the same proof, yet yield vastly different taste profiles. Heaven’s Door invites you to level set, savor and decide which bourbon pleases your palate and wins your heart.
A Tale of Two Bourbons
Many folks mistakenly believe that bourbon can only be made in Kentucky, but the truth is, bourbon can be crafted anywhere in the U.S.
What makes an American whiskey a true bourbon is a special set of rules: it has to be made with at least 51% corn, distilled at a certain proof, and aged in new oak barrels.
Kentucky and Tennessee both have storied histories of producing excellent bourbon, with differences in water and climate producing distinct flavors.
Kentucky’s limestone water and Tennessee’s pure spring water are both famous for helping yeast thrive during fermentation.v
Differences in flavor profile come from the type and provenance of the grains used, the type of yeast used, water quality, the proof at distillation and the particular wood used to make oak barrel.
Even the location of the barrel warehouse, the circulation of air between the barrels being stored and where the barrels are within the warehouse (high up or near the bottom) all conspire to give impart flavor differences.
Heaven’s Door Kentucky Straight Bourbon, Ascension
Heaven’s Door Kentucky Straight Bourbon, Ascension, is a unique blend of two premium Kentucky straight bourbons aged for over five years and non-chill filtered, boasts warm and slightly sweeter notes of vanilla and baking spices. The limestone-filtered water of Kentucky, renowned for its purity, plays a key role in developing these rich flavors.
Heaven’s Door Tennessee Straight Bourbon, Revival
Heaven’s Door Tennessee Straight Bourbon, Revival, also aged for over five years and non-chill filtered, offers a drier profile with complex and sharp flavors. Unlike many Tennessee bourbons, Revival skips the “Lincoln County Process” – a charcoal filtering step – allowing the natural flavors of the local non-GMO grains to shine through, resulting in a lingering finish with hints of caramel, cinnamon, and nutmeg.
“We wanted to fan the flames of this old debate
between Kentucky and Tennessee bourbon
and showcase
our outstanding expressions of both styles.
We’re excited to hear what consumers think and how they experience these two classic bourbons.”
Alex Moore
Master Blender and COO
Heaven’s Door Spirit
Heaven’s Door marries art and craft in every bottle, drawing inspiration from Bob Dylan’s restless spirit to continually innovate. By sourcing non-GMO grains and honoring each state’s natural elements, the distinct character of each bourbon is evident in every sip.
Hey Philly! Following your Heart and Need Media Attention? Reach to Publicity For Good, CEO Heather Holmes explains
Publicity for Good is a millennial run communications firm that provides high-level disruptive, publicity and social media services for wide array of purpose driven clients in the food, beverage and beauty industry.
In 2016 by Heather Holmes former miss Ohio international celebrated publicist and Forbes 30 under 30 nominee publicity for good has built a reputation as the countries number one PR agency for CPG brands that have social causes built into their DNA.
Publicity For Food CEO Heather Holmes
Today’s conversation with Heather Homes from PublicityForGood.com has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, un-edited conversation, visit our YouTube channel here.
Joe Winger:
Heather Holmes from PublicityForGood.com. I’m a big fan because you’ve helped us facilitate a lot of previous conversations about food and drink and nutrition and all the things we like talking about.
What’s the most important thing that you want to share with the audience today?
Heather Holmes:
I really want to take away the unknown or worry about getting in the media. I want to make it more accessible to amazing brands and people.
So I definitely want to share tactical advice that if someone is reading this, they have a good story in business, they have the confidence that their story is good enough and they could absolutely make an impact and grow their business by getting in the media.
Joe Winger:
Starting with the basics, let’s pretend I have a company, I think I want public attention. I want to reach out to someone like you.
So what should I be thinking about? What do I present to you as a step one?
Heather Holmes:
Step one is really the intentionality of why you want to get in the media. What’s your goal? Are you wanting to reach more people? Are you wanting to get your story out there?
Are you wanting more sales and more people to buy your product?
You really need to know. Where you’re going first, and if you don’t know where you’re going, or you don’t have a vision, then it’s really hard to help you.
But if you have clarity there, then we can really pull back and help you identify your story, how you’re different, your why, and why your product and or company, would be really great to be in the media.
The PublicityForGood Team
FlavRReport.com on YouTube
Joe Winger:
Now, looking at the grand scheme of the campaign, what kind of a campaign should we be looking for: expectations, results?
Heather Holmes:
After we know our outcome that we’re wanting to get more sales, more backlinks, or name in the media, then what I like to do first is work with every entrepreneur, and even if you have a product, to really reflect in “why your story matters”
Why does your product matter?
If you’ve never been in the media before, I take people for an exercise where I have them draw on a piece of paper, them as a baby, to where they are now.
I have them write the key pivotal moments that have happened in their life that have made them start that company, because those little components are absolutely a part of your story.
I’ve been in the media 700 plus times: Inside Edition, Fox News, The New York Coast, incredible media, but it hasn’t always been about being a publicist, right?
Yes. I’m the founder of Publicity For Good, but a lot of that has been my story or building a seven figure company from an airstream.
Now I have almost two under two with a third on the way.
So you need to have your key pivotal moments because those are things you can talk about in the media.
Then we need to look at what’s going on in the news and how we bridge the gap between your product. Relevancy.
Joe Winger:
People may not know you are a former Miss Ohio International. Can you tell us a lesson you learned from being a former Miss Ohio International that you’re using in today’s work?
Heather Holmes:
It’s really all about your platform and reaching new audiences.
When I was building my company I decided I wanted to get into pageants. I wanted to meet a community of like minded people that wanted to make a difference in the world.
It was a way for me to have a platform because at the time I was talking about why you absolutely can build a profitable business.But also make a difference in your community and make a difference amongst your team. And really just build an incredible legacy.
So that was why I did the pageants.
I did a bunch of publicity and again, it made me relevant and timely because that was what got me in the media because I was Miss Ohio and I was only Miss Ohio International for a period of time.
So it gave me that relevancy. So you have to be relevant.
You have to bridge the gap between what’s happening in the news, or we often use Awareness Days, National Nutrition Month, National Social Media Day, and you have to position your product or yourself as the solution.
[For example], we were talking about an incredible juice brand, but most pitches I see are very promotional, right? It needs to be how you or your product simplifies people’s lives. How are you adding value? Or you don’t have a product you need to inspire people.
Joe Winger:
You’re growing a 7- figure business. What’s it like growing a huge business while you’re taking care of your kids and for a while you were living out of your Airstream
Heather Holmes:
We lived out of a 23 foot airstream for 3 1/2 years. I went from dating to engaged, to married to [my first child] Rose, who’s almost two, who lived in our airstream with us.
The year the pandemic [hit] was our first million dollar year.
I think a lot of the reason why it was that year is because when March hit, everyone was so scared that we lost about 40% of our business, number one.
Number two, we had to hustle and grit to make it. There was no choice of failing. All the distractions were gone.
When you’re in an Airstream, all you have is your laptop, but we had no external distractions, and then everything else was closed.
So the only focus we could do was our business and we had to scale out of necessity because we didn’t want to lose what we had put so much time in.
Fast forward, we now have 22 acres where we live and we have two under two, we have one on the way, we’re a full time team of 40, and it’s not easy.
I say transparently, it’s a hot mess. There are so many miracles that happen every day, but life is one, right? I can’t turn off my founder hat and publicist hat and then “Oh, I’m a mom”. It’s all one.
So yes, I might have Rose [my daughter] on a call with me from time to time, but I’ve learned that the more you step in and embrace your life, who you are and the realness, sometimes people opt out and that’s okay.
And this is my legacy.
I like these missions that we’re doing good work to us is way more than a business. We want to grow your brand and mission and we take it so seriously.
So it’s not perfect. It’s not perfectly scheduled. I’m a full time mom, all the time on the weekends when the kids are sleeping, we’re working.
We know where we want to go, and these clients and ambitions that we’re aligned with and supporting are helping people with their health.
Joe Winger:
What an incredible story to share.
Heather Holmes: I have so much to share. Like I was adopted when I was a week old to having two under two and another one on the way and building a business and building a homestead.
It’s so crazy. Austin, who’s my husband, the first week we were dating, we’re all about intentionality. I have the journal and we mapped everything out.
This year, we were going to get engaged then married. Austin and I,l we will have been together almost five years.
We’ve had a kid every year. Rose will be two in June.
We want to build a business. We want to impact our clients, brands, and scale their business. We want our team to get better and flourish in their personal lives too.
This is our mission and I’ve seen so many miracles happen from getting in the media on a personal level.
I was talking to [a business owner client] and her business grew by 40% from getting in the media.
One of my favorite cookie brands, a mom had an incredible heart story. She went on our local news and she brought in $12,000 worth of sales, just the local people wanting to support her.
On the flip side, when people Google my name, it’s like my social currency, there’s all these articles. So I have so much peace in that. Our kids will see the good work we’re doing.
Joe Winger:
You’re talking to an audience of foodies. What is your favorite meal?
Heather Holmes:
We just had Indian food last night that my husband made and it was so good.
We used to live in San Diego and I think San Diego has the best food. It’s all fresh. We’ve traveled a lot. We’ve been to Bali, their food is pretty incredible too. Where we live [now] we’re right outside of Asheville and Charlotte. So they have some good restaurants, but like I’m not in the phase right now where I’m the foodie like I used to be.
[At our house] we have chickens and we have fresh eggs. So I’m obsessed with fresh eggs every morning. You’re living a good life when you can go get your eggs and have them at home with some goat cheese.
And honestly, I love Livermuth. Crazy. So I’d say some Livermuth fried in a cast iron with some eggs and goat cheese. It’s the simple things that I really do love.
Joe Winger:
Heather Holmes with Publicity for Good. As we wrap up, whether it’s a potential client, a potential vendor, someone wanting your help with publicity, what are the best ways to find, follow you, websites, social media, etc?
Wanna Fall in Love With a New Bourbon? Here are 6 Reasons to Taste Ben Holladay Missouri Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Missouri’s oldest distillery underwent a $10 million renovation in 2015 and began distilling bourbon on-site again for the first time in three decades.
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For bourbon-lovers, it’s time to get very excited.
The release of Ben Holladay Missouri Straight Bourbon Whiskey from the Holladay Distillery is now exactly one month away.
Here are 6 Reasons to Taste Ben Holladay Missouri Straight Bourbon Whiskey
#1 Ben Holladay Bourbon is the Real Deal
Ben Holladay Bourbon is Bottled-in-Bond, a designation that signals the highest level of authenticity and adherence to rigorous distilling standards.
This is handcrafted small batch bourbon, with each batch being pulled monthly from different barrels spread out on different floors of our two seven-story rickhouses and blended by our master distiller to match our strict criteria for flavor profile.
It was produced at a distillery that has a fascinating true history more compelling than any craft story you’ve been sold, and which has remained American-owned throughout all 166 years of its existence.
#2 Ben Holladay Bourbon is made the Old-Fashioned Way
The Holladay Distillery was founded in 1856, making it Missouri’s oldest distillery.
There is a fine balance between the evolving technology of modern distillation and this long legacy of distilling history.
They have strived to honor the traditions of the past by renovating the original stillhouse, cooking with the original mash bill, distilling our bourbon in a column still with doubler, and using two cookers to heat the corn at a high temperature and the more delicate grains at a lower temperature.
#3 Ben Holladay Bourbon is the 5%
It is a common misconception that bourbon can only be made in Kentucky. While it is true that ninety-five percent of the world’s bourbon supply comes from Kentucky, the spirit is by definition American-made.
Bourbon can only be made in the United States and it can be made in any state, but the finest bourbon results from an ideal combination of climate and geology that is rare outside of Kentucky but is found in Weston, Missouri.
Ben Holladay Bourbon meets both the federal requirements for bourbon and the additional Missouri state requirements to be classified as Real Missouri Bourbon.
The Holladay Distillery sits on land with active limestone springs that were first charted by Lewis and Clark in 1804. Limestone provides minerality and promotes fermentation, while also filtering out impurities and iron that can affect the spirit’s color and taste.
The Midwestern climate of dry and cold winters with hot and humid summers result in variations in temperature that are ideal for aging bourbon. The barrels age in two historic rickhouses called ironclads that are not climate controlled, allowing the temperature to vary by as much as thirty degrees between the top and bottom floors.
“Stagecoach King” Ben Holladay, who founded the Holladay Distillery in 1856
#5 Ben Holladay was a Giant of the West
Ben Holladay is one of the greatest unknown figures in American history, an original transportation tycoon who has been called the “Elon Musk of his day.”
He was famed as the “Stagecoach King” for creating the Overland Express stagecoach lines that were ultimately sold to Wells Fargo, just one piece of a transportation portfolio that also included steamships, streetcars, and a railroad.
He even owned the Pony Express for part of its brief history.
With everything from silver mines to saloons also under his domain, he was the largest individual employer in the US in the 1860s and kept close counsel with everyone from President Lincoln to Brigham Young.
He built an empire that spanned the entire country, and this distillery is the only piece left standing.
Kyle Merklein, Master Distiller at the Holladay Distillery in Weston, Missouri
#6 Kyle Merklein is Modern Distilling’s Best
Crafting bourbon is equal parts art and science. Their Master Distiller, Kyle Merklein, earned his biological/agricultural engineering degrees from Kansas State, with a Master’s research focus on the optimization of various fermentation systems.
He’s been in charge of the distillery’s bourbon operation and new product development since 2016 and has spent countless hours comparing the lab work on current barrels to the data found in the company’s old handwritten ledgers and TTB records going back decades, all while working toward his Ph.D. in industrial engineering.
Merklein has a true passion for bourbon and an attentiveness to the most minute details of bourbon-making that keeps him awake at night. He was the exact right person for the formidable task of producing a bourbon that both honors Holladay’s legacy and exceeds modern standards.
Founded in 1856 by “Stagecoach King ” Ben Holladay in Weston, Missouri, Holladay Distillery is the premium spirits division of McCormick Distilling Company. The company’s brand portfolio includes Five Farms Irish Cream, 360 Vodka, Tequila Rose, Broker’s Gin, Whicked Pickle, and more. Ben Holladay Missouri Straight Bourbon Whiskey, a six-year-old, Bottled-in-Bond, handcrafted small batch bourbon, will launch in May 2022. Learn more at holladaydistillery.com or holladaybourbon.com and follow @holladay1856.
Philly Cocktails! Now Madre Mezcal offers a Gateway to a Better Taste
Today’s conversation is with Ryan Fleming from Madre Mezcal. The LA nightlife veteran reveals his time working behind the bar in some of Southern California’s hottest spots, as well as the inspiration that got him to travel to Mexico, discovering Mezcal.
The aroma, flavors, science and food pairings for Mezcal.
Love Tequila? Discover the Gateway to better taste with Madre Mezcal’s Ryan Fleming
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, unedited conversation, visit our YouTube Channel.
“…I’ve been a big Mezcal lover before I ever sold it…”
Joe Winger: Can you share the behind the scenes or how the brand itself was created?
Ryan Fleming: I’ve been a big Mezcal lover before I ever even sold it or made a dollar doing that. So I got to actually meet Ron Cooper, who is the legend that started the Del Maguey label back in 2011.
I got to drink rabbit Pachuca with him and all these other amazing things. The reason I bring him up is he’s a kind of one of the people that we look up to, how to sustainably bring a brand and how to create culture that crosses boundaries in a sense.
He has a beautiful book that I recommend anyone to read if you haven’t read Ron Cooper’s book.
But we share a similar story. One of our founding partners, Tony Farfalla and one of my good friends, Stefan Tony’s an artist and he was literally traveling through Oaxaca doing documentaries and embracing the art and culture. He happened to meet Jose Morales, which is the first family we ever worked with.
If you have original bottles of Madre [Mezcal] before the labels have changed, it used to say Jose’s name on the bottle.
So Tony was bringing bottles back to Brooklyn in plastic water bottles and it snowballed. His friends in Brooklyn were like, this stuff’s great. Started out in plastic water bottles in 2014. I think it was 2016 when our first glass bottles actually came by and we became like of a more legit brand and company. But it started with Tony and Stefan; and they brought on our CEO and COO, Chris and Davide.
Chris actually is one of the founding driving forces in the electronic scene in the 90s in Europe. Chris comes from a very artistic, music based background. Then he went on to work for some bigger alcohol brands in the vodka world.
Davide, who is our COO, my direct boss, who I love, is Italian and his whole family built furniture and he got his big break by importing and bringing furniture over [to the United States]. He also works with a beautiful high end apparel line.
“…everyone has a very unique artistic background, which really reflects the brand and the label…”
So everyone has a very unique artistic background, which really reflects the brand and the label. Just not wanting to make a quick buck and actually make something we can stand behind and believe in.
As the families now blossom into four, we use three: the Vasquez family, the Blas family and the Morales family are our three main producers for our red and black label, which most people are familiar with.
We just brought in Moises and he’s actually from Santa Catarina Minas. That’s a little town where all they really make is their production. It’s a town known for nothing but clay pot distillation. So if you actually use a copper pot in, in Manera and Santa Caterina Minas, you’re looked at as what are you doing? That’s not what we do here.
He’s our last and newest producer and he may be the most cowboy of them all, and he’s my favorite.
When you get to Tlaxcala, you have to walk over like a little rope bridge over like a river and stuff into the hills of Minas to see his production, and he’s got his grandfather’s old still, and he’s got his mom’s little kitchen that he wants to reopen, and it’s like a restaurant. But if you and I were to look at it, it just looks like a backyard set of tables and chairs with a cooking center.
No, this is a restaurant for the village. It’s really beautiful down in Minas. I recommend everyone, if you get a chance to go down there, it felt like the jungles in Costa Rica, cause it’s up near the hills and it’s just so green and lush up there.
“…I’ve been working in the alcohol industry for almost 15 years …”
Joe Winger:What got you down there? Was it for a vacation or for Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
So I’ve been working in the alcohol industry for almost 15 years and I worked for the Houston Hospitality Group for over a decade, helping run programs and menus. I worked for a couple other restaurants, but I used to work for Stillhouse Whiskey, which many people remember the terrible flavored moonshine in a gas can.
Yeah I actually sold that. I did pretty well, there was always one flavor that someone loved. I had the mint chocolate chip and I would keep it in the freezer to take care of my sweet tooth when I didn’t have ice cream. So that’s how it started.
My buddy, Stefan, who’s one of the founding partners goes, “Hey, we got this Mezcal company.” I was just basically consulting for free lunches.
One day he goes, do you want to go to Oaxaca? And I went, absolutely.
I familiar with going down to Mexico city, but I’d never been as far South as Oaxaca. So I jumped at the chance.
[Meanwhile] we all got an email from Stillhouse saying “Hey, I know things are being shaken up right now, but trust me, everything’s fine. Don’t worry about it.”
That weekend, apparently the whole team got laid off, but I didn’t get the email untll I came home Monday. They’re saying, “Ryan, are you going to be okay? Do you need help finding work?”
So I went down to Oaxaca, met the families, broke bread with Jose Morales, got to meet his mother who blessed the roast and cooked us dinner. They offered me a job.
That was started my journey about six years ago with Madre [Mezcal ]and I’ve been with him since.
Fleming motions to tattoos on his arms and hands.
Discovering Madre Mezcal
I have it tattooed on my hand right here. I have it tattooed on my palm right here. And I think I have another one on the inside of my leg too. We do tasting events and we’ll have pop up tattoo artists all the time.
Tequila vs Madre Mezcal
Joe Winger:
You mentioned the tastings and the education. Are there quick lessons that you teach the most often?
Ryan Fleming:
Basic production, culture, financial, environmental and economic sustainability.
I don’t think people understand that Oaxaca is the second poorest state in Mexico. Everyone thinks the Mezcal boom must be bringing so many jobs, but it really only affects about 20 – 40,000 people that live in Oaxaca for the production,
Mezcal is great because it does bring some financial sustainability to the families. Jose started off driving a taxi to pay his bills and now he’s making Mezcal in his family’s tradition. His whole family, his cousin, his uncles, they all make Mezcal for a living now.
There’s so much culture behind it. Even the old argument of did the Spanish bring over copper stills and that started distillation or does it go back to the Aztecs and Mayans? Because they found distillate and pottery from 3000 years ago. It’s those little nuances.
People really like to talk about the environmental, but giving back to the people down there by not just buying product, but giving them some ownership, which Madre does do, so that everyone has a little bit of skin in the game.
So I think Sustainability, whether it’s environmental, economical, cultural, and production. Those are the things I really like to talk about.
Joe Winger:What is the basic difference between mezcal and tequila? Or is it more complicated?
Ryan Fleming:
You could say production techniques, additives, mass production are probably the three biggest differences.
Tequila can only be made with one agave. It’s a blue weber. Mezcal can be made with the other 47-ish varietals, and that number is always fluctuating, based on classification and family genius.
Production is the big one. Tequila is made in massive factories and made with either chemicals or steam for the most part.
Whereas mezcal is actually made by hand, roasted in an earthen oven. The biggest thing that separates Tequila and Mezcal is the 1% additive rule.
Tequila can have up to 1% by volume additives, and they don’t have to tell you. That’s why certain large brands will say 100% Agave, but it’s full of additives, because it doesn’t take much with modern chemistry. Just a couple drops of glycerin or vanilla extract to change the flavor and hide all the nuances.
Mezcal can’t have any additives by law.
Joe Winger:Can we walk through the roles and responsibilities between the families that produce Madre Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
Yeah, the four families. Let’s start with Jose Morales. Him and his brother both make mezcal. Now they produce for us in the US exclusively. We encourage all of our families to continue making mezcal to trade. They use it for a local economy.
Every time I go down there, [their operation is growing]. When they started, they had three stills. Now there’s 12 up and running and they have solar power. It’s just so crazy to see how much the transformation has happened.
The original recipe, the blend of cuishe and espadine at 90 proof, that’s his family’s recipe. So we expanded that and we brought on Carlos Blas and the Vasquez family. Unfortunately, Natalio the father passed away a couple of years ago.
His daughters are now producing in the family’s tradition and we take whatever we can from them.
But what we do, that’s a little bit different is, we started out when it was just Jose, he was making the blend himself. Now we have them make the espadine and the cuishe separately.
All three families are part of the process. Sometimes we just get cuiche from Jose. Sometimes Carlos makes all the espadine, but Carlos is like a master blender.
We blend a cold style like Scotch does. Even though it’s not the most traditional way, all the distillation and process is as true as it can be.
But by blending post distillation allows us to keep consistency, which was a huge problem because every batch with your wild fermentation, your wild yeast and all these beautiful nuances, it’ll be inconsistent as you grow as a brand. It was hard for us to keep consistency.
But by blending multiple terroirs and three different families’ production, we can keep a consistent product that tastes the same as well as expanding and bringing on more families to help instead of just going to a large factory house and not making what I would call “traditional Mezcal.”
Joe Winger:So focusing on your background, you mentioned that you’ve been a bartender in the LA nightlife. Any memorable adventures or lessons you can share?
Ryan Fleming:
There are some stories I could tell that I probably don’t want to share publicly. But there are some amazing stories I can tell.
One of the oddest experiences I’ve ever had, I worked at Good Times at Davey Wayne’s, which is one of the most famous bars in the Hollywood nightlife in the past decade.
Paul McCartney showed up at our door.
But because our staff is younger and our door guys are a little bit younger, they thought it was an old weird British man that just showed up and they turned Paul McCartney away from the door.
‘Holy crap, is that Paul McCartney’?
He was like, do you know who I am? The guys [were like] ”We don’t care.” Like straight up, blowing Paul McCartney off. One of our managers came out and was like, ‘Holy crap, is that Paul McCartney’? And they’re like, wait, the guy from the Beatles?!
My manager ran out, “Please come back,” and Paul had a great time at the bar. We got him a special little area to sit down. It was a packed Saturday. It’s not a nightclub where we have gated off [areas]. Even if you reserve a table, people are inches away from you where you’re sitting at your table.
Justin Bieber showed up one time and everyone went nuts. He comes in, walks around, does a loop, comes out and goes, “I thought this was a hip hop club.” and just left.
It was a 1970s themed bar and we played nothing but 70s music.
The dichotomy between the two different generations and to see them all melt into one location was one of the coolest things about working at that bar.
Joe Winger:It’s so crowded because it’s so popular. The Houston Brothers always do such a good job.
Ryan Fleming:
Yeah. The cocktails are still really good too. For as much volume as we used to do there, the biggest thing is how can I make a really beautiful cocktail that’s still cost effective and doesn’t take 12 steps. We got really good at batching stuff and figuring out how to infuse things. Luckily our back of house was just the most amazing. Mariano is the best barback I’ve ever had in my whole life. He’s still there.
He is just a workhorse that got all the infusions. He would cook, he would infuse all of our products and he was just great. Even if we just did a jalapeno infusion on our tequila, if it got too spicy, he could break down the ratio and water it down with more products so that we could keep the spice level approachable.
Joe Winger:
What is the secret to high quantity yet high value cocktails?
Ryan Fleming:
Batching is definitely the way to do it. Any of your alcohols that are shelf stable, you want to put all of those in the proper ratios in a bottle.
Instead of grabbing a modifier and your base spirit and another modifier, you’re grabbing one bottle with a special tape at the bottom, so you know which cocktail it goes to and then all your fresh stuff.
You can’t batch the fresh stuff. It has to be separated because you put citrus in something and it goes bad in three days. Now the whole batch is bad. So keeping your fresh stuff separated.
Joe Winger: Back to Madre Mezcal. Obviously the bottles themselves are where all the power is. So let’s talk about labels and taste profiles.
Ryan Fleming:
People love our labels. Our branding is top notch. It’s one of the first compliments we always get. “Oh my God, I love your branding.”
Madre Mezcal Artesanal
Looked at Oaxacan culture and some other like medieval culture and combined the art from the two.
As far as the red label it’s the woman on the bull. It’s a really beautiful message of Mother Earth coming down and starting to share humanity and move across the world to plants and spread love. That’s why she’s on the bull. It’s the combination of animal, Mother Earth, and humans.
Madre Mezcal Espandin
The black label is a beautiful logo of a woman on the ground. She’s planting and spreading the seed of life that gives us agave and flowers and fruit and vegetables and everything else.
Madre Mezcal Ancestral
The ancestral is this beautiful clay bottle with old clay vessels from Greece that carried wine with the fluid coming out and it’s supposed to celebrate the ancestral way of making mezcal and clay pots and clay distillation.
I always love telling the story of people who say mezcal is not supposed to be aged, which is a true-ish statement in my opinion. But back in the day, everything got transferred in barrels. So Mezcal would accidentally get aged in barrels because it would travel from town to town on horseback after the product was made.
So the idea that Mezcal was never aged is it wasn’t aged on purpose.
Mezcal was accidentally aged in wood. The traditional way that people would age Mezcal is in glass and they would hide it underground.
I always tell people, if you have a beautiful bottle of Mezcal, you should open it and take it out and put a wine cork in it, or at least crack the bottle and get some air because it really lets alcohol open up and aerate.
Mezcal benefits from a resting period. Pouring it in a nice open glass, like a snifter or a wine glass, letting it sit for about 5-10 minutes will really open it up.
Madre Mezcal tasting notes
Madre is designed to be less smoky. I really hate the term smoky. I like the word roasted because what you’re tasting is like barbeque.
You’re tasting the roasting of the agave and the charcoaling and the burning of the outside agave which will affect the sugars, the caramelization.
Madre really was designed to be a more approachable mezcal. We call ourselves ”The gateway to the category.”
We want to bring people from tequila over to Mezcal so you can explore what agave spirits also have to offer.
It’s bright, clean, and smooth. I always compare it to a really nice, made tequila.
Our Espadine is actually a close cousin of [tequila’s] Blue Weber. It tastes really bright, clean and smooth. But you’re going to get some of that minerality and smoke in the end.
Like easy drinking with some earthy aromas.
Joe Winger:That night when I met you, what you handed me was my first taste of the night. I love that it was so pure and smooth. It didn’t clog up my mouth for the rest of the night.
Ryan Fleming:
I’m like you. I want to have 2-3 cocktails a night. Not just one and my palette’s done.
Our Espadine to me is a 2-3 second palette. It clears up and you get like a breath and it’s fading. Our Ensemble goes on for 10- 12 seconds. From sweet vanilla to chocolate to mineral and then to smoke. Then the smoke fades and you get just a really beautiful, crisp. It’s viscous. You can feel the oil in your mouth when you swirl it around and it makes the best Negroni.
Joe Winger:Let’s talk about food pairings.
Ryan Fleming:
I want to know if this caught you off guard, but it’s Italian food.
Very rich foods. These beautiful Mezcals are light and almost floral and fragrant, It cuts through the richness and creaminess of food.
That’s why mezcal and chocolate are consistently paired together, but that was just way too easy. There’s always mezcal chocolate pairings, but like a really nice Italian dish, something creamy and rich, like an Alfredo or a really well done piece of pizza, like a margarita or a white sauce pizza.
“…I want to know if this caught you off guard, but…”
We are working on doing some [pizza] pairings with some places in LA. Do a different slice of pizza with three different cocktails of Madre and then have a tasting at the end.
Chocolate has a big part of Oaxaca too. You can’t not have some chocolate and mezcal at the end of the night.
Espresso martinis are so hot again right now. Try making one with mezcal instead of vodka and just [see] how coffee helps open up the agave and the notes, and you’re going to get so much more going on in your cocktail.
If you pair a nice espresso martini with beautiful, dark chocolate from Oaxaca. That is your final cocktail at the end of the night, it won’t let you down.
Joe Winger:You mentioned replacing Mezcal with vodka in a martini, are there any traditional or more common cocktails we should also try replacing Mezcal in?
Ryan Fleming:
When I tell you this, it may blow your mind. Most gin cocktails are a little bit better with Mezcal.
There are certain times you need botanicals, but a lot of really good classic gin cocktails, if you sub them for Mezcal, are absolutely fantastic.
Joe Winger:I’m shocked because most gins have such unique aromatics.
Ryan Fleming:
Which Mezcal has so many of those same unique terpenes going on that it changes the cocktail, but it works.
So instead of having botanicals, you have all these beautiful vegetal and mineral notes that just come from agaves.
Joe Winger:What are the biggest misconceptions in the world of Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
A lot of people have a misconception, especially on the trade side, that we have grown exponentially. It’s been a lot of hard work. People think we have this massive team behind us. There’s less than 20 of us on the whole team. That includes our team down in Oaxaca, who watches over manufacturing and production for us down there.
We don’t have an office. We have a little tiny apartment in Venice for meetings.
A lot of people don’t understand the hard work that goes into creating a small brand. It’s just a lot of people working hard to create beautiful Mezcal, especially the families.
People [unfairly comparing it to] tequila. What do you mean, we can’t get more? Why is it so expensive? We have people going out hand collecting wild agaves and harvesting espadine. All of that is hand cut, hand chopped. I’ve hand cut agaves with the families.
None of this is industrialized or mechanized like tequila.
Appreciate every drop of mezcal you have, because someone put a lot of love and labor into it.
Joe Winger:Ryan, as we wrap up, let’s talk about where can learn more about Madre Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
We have a beautiful Instagram. Madremezcal.com is our website.
We also have this Instagram called mezcal. Learning and it’s a little short videos and little blurbs to talk about production, families, history, and culture. It is focused on Madre, but it’s not just Madre, it’s Mezcal as a whole.
If you want to know more about our families who produce, where it’s made, you can find all that information on madremezgal. com.
Our bottles are in most of your nicer bottle shops, liquor stores. In California, we’re lucky enough to be in Trader Joe’s for the Espadine and Whole Foods has our Ensemble.
If you can’t find it, go to madremezcal.com and we ship bottles to almost every state in the U S.
We’re in nine countries, too. Australia. All over Europe, Costa Rica. We’re working on Japan and South Korea as well. So I’m just excited to see the culture of mezcal just expand beyond just America and see how excited because I, when I talk to people that are in London or, people in Australia, and they’re so excited about the idea of being able to get mezcal.
Joe Winger: What is the future for Madre?
Ryan Fleming:I can’t tell you about the big one.
But, [exciting things for] our Ancestral, which is pretty new and every batch of that’s going to be hand numbered and labeled.
We’re going to start doing small batch productions that will be very limited. Then the desert waters, which we have ready for summer.
Head to The City: Manhattan NYC’s La Grande Boucherie Chef Maxime Kien Reveals inspiration from Past Generations of Chefs
Chef Maxime Kien is the new Executive Chef of NYC’s The Group, responsible for La Grande Boucherie, Boucherie Union Square, Boucherie West Village, Petite Boucherie and more. And by the end of 2023, they’re launching even more restaurants throughout the United States..
But today’s conversation is about how the past has inspired Chef Maxime Kien’s work.
Chef Maxime Kien has over twenty years of fine dining experience but it all started as a young boy growing up in his family’s kitchens.
You grew up in kitchens. Your grandparents loved to cook and your father was a chef. How did these experiences inspire you?
Well, my Dad was a professional Chef in the South of France. In Monaco, all my grandparents, both my grandmothers and my grandfathers were great cooks. One of my great-grandfathers was a professional cook in Paris at an open air market that was very famous in the early 1900s. There was a very famous French brasserie opened over there and the story behind that is that the gentleman that opened that place wanted to have a place where all the chefs [that worked there] could meet because there was the open air market that was right next to it.
So you had a mix of late night partiers that would go out and party and wanted a place to be able to go eat and drink all night long. Now you had a place for that.
All the people that worked until late at night wanted a place where they could go and eat something before they went home. And Chefs that had to go to the market very early, at four o’clock in the morning to pick up that day’s poultry, rabbits, quails and all the fresh fish coming from Britain on a daily routine. They would do that at four o’clock in the morning and afterwards they needed a place to go for breakfast.
It was open 24 hours a day. It was always a mix of people from show business, like singers and actors.
You would have Mick Jagger sitting at the bar. Next to him would be a Chef. Next to the Chef would be a 14 year old boy having an omelet for breakfast with a glass of red wine at six o’clock in the morning. So it’s always been a mix of everything.
Unfortunately, my Dad passed away when I was really young. I was six. But I guess I was drawn to cooking and that lifestyle. It’s chaotic. When you’re working in a kitchen, you never know what time you’ll get done. It might be quiet and you get home at night by 10 o’clock.
If you start to get busy, you might not be done until two o’clock in the morning. So it’s a mix of adrenaline and being busy and it’s tough and it’s grueling and it’s rewarding and it’s a mix of everything
How did growing up in kitchens with your family inspire you to run your own kitchen?
Every chef is different. The way I run my kitchen is different from the way that other chefs I’ve worked with run theirs. It’s like a recipe. Everyone can interpret it differently. You take bits and pieces from a recipe to take the same dish and make it your own.
Someone’s management style is the same way. I’ve worked for some chefs who were very good at managing people, but in the kitchen they were not as great. And some of them were geniuses at creating dishes, but they were not the best at managing people. So you have to create your own style.
You graduated culinary school when you were very young. Would you still recommend school or encourage new chefs to learn hands-on in a kitchen?
The hard part about school versus hands-on is being able to understand exactly what [a new chef] is trying to achieve. Meaning that when I went to culinary school back in the 1980s, you wanted to graduate and get a diploma. After that, you wanted to be able to get your foot inside the door of a three Michelin star restaurant, a very famous place because you knew the chef was someone you were gonna be able to learn from.
And that [experience] was gonna take you to the next chef, that was gonna take you to the next chef, and so on. Because it’s a close-knit community, like a family. All the big chefs know each other. So when you’re ready to make your next move, the Chef [at your current kitchen] would come and ask, ‘Where do you want to go next?’ He’ll make a call and help you get that next job.
Now, unfortunately, the way some TV cooking shows happen, they give a vision of what it is to be a chef that is completely different from the truth.
So now you have cooks that go to very famous, very expensive culinary schools and they spend a huge amount of money to graduate. Then after two years of education, they expect to find a position of Executive Chef, making six figures and wearing Egyptian cotton jackets with their name on them.
But they don’t have the basics. They’re trying to run before they can walk. The biggest difference with my generation is, we went through all the processes, we didn’t try to rush the steps before you actually tried to be a chef.
You had to be a good line cook before you tried to become Chef de Partie and then [become] a good Chef de Partie before you become a Sous Chef, and then [become] a good Sous Chef, before you become an executive chef. So that’s the main difference.
Almost like an army style, you have to graduate through the ranks.
New chefs try to go too fast. Take your time. Find a chef you can learn from. New York is very lucky for that because you’ve got so many great chefs.
Daniel Boulud and all these great chefs brought the New York Culinary to the next level. Daniel Boulud has been here for 30 years now.
So go work for them, write everything down, taste everything, take pictures!
When I started, we didn’t have cell phones to take pictures, so it was whatever you could remember and whatever you could write down. Now we’ve reached a point where you can take a video of a chef doing a dish and afterwards you can write down notes.
I would say the biggest advice to the cooks right now: find a chef, find your niche, go work for him for two years, three years, four years. Write everything down, taste everything, ask questions, and then learn as much as you can.
Don’t think about being called “Chef” right away. Don’t think about making a ton of money. Learn as much as you can then, then after that, start to think about your next step. But take your time.
If you have the financial ability to be able to afford culinary school, do it, but it can be pricey. You don’t need to go to a very expensive, very famous one; but go to get some good basic training in a culinary school.
Then after that, go see a chef and say, “I just want to learn. I want to work for you. You’re the best in the business in your town.” It can be in New York. It can also be in Chicago or anywhere else. Just say, “I want to learn. I want to work for you.”